All Talk and No Action Monday, May 18, 2009


Have been thinking bucketfuls on why the NDA couldn't show it's MAGIK this time around too...

Here are my several cents on what I dislike about the NDA and what could be hampering it from emerging as a National Leader -


  • National Presence - Not having any presence in major states like TN, Andhra, WB, etc. has always hampered the prospects of the BJP. How can it ever dream of emerging as a National Party if it can't have it's presence felt? Also, I am stressing on BJP's own presence and NOT Allies. I hate alliances. I feel one has to forego a LOT of one's idealogy/Programme if one allies with small parties/brokers. I am sure the party Big Wigs must have done lots of introspection. Hopefully, they would work on this most important deterrent
  • Dynasties - The most important factor that differentiates the Congress from the BJP is the prominence given to the "Dynasties" in the Congress. The "Ji Huzoori" factor hasn't worked in the BJP. It's a democratic party where anybody from the grassroots can emerge as a leader. One needn't be a Gandhi/Scindia/Pilot/Dutt/Deora to be given a ticket. This was the case uptil now. However, recent cases like Munde asking for Somaiya's ticket be given to Poonam Mahajan is extremely disrespectful towards Somaiya's amazing work in his area and a move towards "Family Raj". This is what I have observed in Mumbai. I am not sure if it is happening elsewhere too. The BJP needs to acknowledge that young blood will refrain from joining it if it moves away from it's "Democratic Core". The BJP is a cadre based party and it should always keep in mind the grassroots level workers. If the workers are unhappy while the bosses keep having their ways, it's going to spell disaster
  • Young Blood - From the very outset I had a feeling that nominating L.K. Advani might actually prove to be a negative. But on further thought, I couldn't come up with a name that could be shown as the face of the BJP or it's future Leader/ a Probable PM candidate. The party has some great thinkers like Jaitley, Shourie and a few good politicians like Swaraj, Modi, Chauhan, etc. It's high time that these are given better positions than just General Secretaries and Spokespersons. A very strong second rung leadership is of no use if the Old Guard isn't ready to pave way for young talent. Apart from the second rung, it's important to nurture a third rung too ! I personally know of sooo many first time voters who voted for Deora only because he "looked fit, was a Boston return and was young!" It's important to cultivate great minds who are willing to work for the progress of the nation and are young enough to connect with the Urban masses.
  • Ego - Huge and Brittle Egos have always caused damage. I hope Rajnath Singh is shown his place and we get a better Party President, more in sync with what people want (Hopefully, Jaitley.)
  • Work, work and work some more - Orissa, Bihar, Gujarat, Karnataka have all shown that no amount of debates and discussions and intellectual theories work. It's grassroots level work that has got these CMs back to power. Hope the NDA as a whole realises this and works towards becoming a National Party with genuine work to show around
  • Now, I would like to comment on a regional issue and not a national one. BJP's alliance with the Sena in Maharashtra. I have always hated the Sena and it's regressive ideology. Curbs on all sorts of personal freedom, naka-bandi, maar peet on Valentine's Day, patthar baazi when any Thackeray Family member dies and more - This is all that they have stood for. Talk to them about economy and other important issues and they shall run for cover. From recent reports, it seems that BJP is thinking of breaking away from the Sena and allying with the MNS. If this were to happen, it would start losing respect, at least, as far as I am concerned. Again, here, all boils down to going solo, working for the benefit of the masses and establishing oneself as a formidable party
Today, BJP stands where it stood in 1991. It's morale is at an all time low and there is internal un-rest.

But I am sure it can spring back. I am sure we can have lots of Charismatic leaders like Vajpayee.

Only, if the party aims at strengthening itself from within.

Five Years is a lonnng Time. Hopefully, we shall see a better, more focused and a formidable National Party.

I would like to quote my most favourite Quote from the Bhagvad Gita here - I think it applies to the BJP today...


Udaaret Aatmana Aatmanam
Na Aatmana Avsaadaye

Believe in yourself. You are your best friend and you alone are your worst enemy





28 comments:

Ms. Neha Gandhi said...

i like ur take on the NDA and the sena is one of its own worst enemies...
good analysis..good summary
i feel sort of happy that NDA has been shown its place...not sure if 5 years is a good time for them to change aka improve...

Ye manzilen !! said...

You missed the point. They are pros, they knew what they were doing......it is just the right wing of any country always looks in the back mirror and yearns for glory days of the past.

From the Republican Party of US to the Republican Party of Afghanistan and Republican Party of Pakistan, they all are looking backward.

Would you give me support/ticket to run for the class monitor, if I make a hate speech in your class?

That is what is wrong with BJP....

Deepak Iyer said...

You seem to have done quite some thinking.

I'd like to know why you left out their right leaning ideology out of this ? While I do not think it was responsible for their failure this time, I do think it will come into play to get to a number like 272. Like I mentioned in my post, Vajpayee could tread the middle path. I cannot think of anyone else who can.

About leaders, the BJP has a huge vacuum now. Modi is controversial, Rajnath might connect to the masses while Jaitley to the classes. I cannot think of anyone who can speak to the classes and masses with the same appeal like an Advani or Vajpayee.

Youngsters, very valid point. That is the only advantage a dynasty rule has, and it is coming to the forefront now.

Baki, valid point about presence in states.

These are all that I can think of right now.

P.S. : Thanks for commenting.

Deepak Iyer said...

Forgot to add : If the BJP is true to its ideology, they should already know which verses of the Gita to refer to [:)]

india unbound said...

@ Ye Manzeilein

The right wing party of India (BJP) had 2 seats in 1984 and increased it by 44 times to 89 in 1989.

Since then they had always increased their seats till 1999.

Were they (and people who voted them) looking forward or backward according to you from 1989 to 1999?

Even in this elections BJP got 3 out of 4 seats in HP and 10 out of 11 in CS. Does that mean people in these states love to live in past and love hate speeches??

The fact is that BJP won in those states because of local issues and they had very good CMs in these states as did Congress in the states that it won.

If Right wing party of US also always look backwards then how did Bush become President twice and many more Republicans became Presidents before him?

Did Americans in those times suddenly decided to look backwards?

So it is not as if Right wing conservatism is at fault.

Elections are not fought on ideology alone. There are a lot of factors which decide the outcome.

Specially in India, in Lok Sabha elections there is no one issue which dominates the entire country. Election results were aggregate of state verdicts, as each state had a different issue.

What's in a name? said...

just one point to clarify...I guess you want to talk about BJP, the national party, but in the entire post you are referring to it as NDA, which , if you know, is not a single political party but an alliance between group of political parties.

india unbound said...

@ All Talk and No Action

I dont think Advani's age was any issue. Manmohan Singh is of the same age group and had a heart surgery 3 months back. Advani is fitter than Manmohan Singh.

Similar argument was given when BJP lost Delhi assembly elections last November. We were told that Delhi's young population did not like VK Malhotra because of his old age. Somehow they liked Sheila Dikshit who's son Sandeep Dikshit, an MP from Delhi cannot be called young :-D

As far as the perception that BJP lacks young leaders is concerned,I think BJP cannot be blamed for this. Most young leaders of Congress namely Milind Deora, Jitin Prased, Sachin PIlot, Rahul Gandhi, Jyotiraditya Scindia etc owe their positions to their parents. In the same post you also expressed your displeasure about Poonam Mahajan being given prominence because of her family :-)

I would never like BJP to go the Congress way as far as dynastic politics is concerned.

There are many genuine young leaders in BJP but they are not profiled by the Media.

PS:The oldest candidate in this elections was an 88 year old man who defeated Ram Vilas Paswan and most Indians were happy with the outcome :-)(Paswan holds Guinness Record of largest victory margin from same constituency)

All Talk and No Action said...

@Neha - Thanks for stopping by Neha.
While, I do think that SS is it's own enemy, I am not very happy that NDA has lost... All said, it truly is a party of some great thinkers and also the most democratic one you will find in India.

@Shahid -
I guess this is going to be one long answer...

Personally, I feel it's Good that India has a Right, a Left and a pseudo Centrist Party.

You think hate speeches and ideology are the issue. I do not think so.

The issue is that the most Secular Party and the Party for Dalits and all other parties start every speech with - Hum Minorities ke Saath hain... Isn't it a given in a democracy that you are suppossed to be for all sections and not just majority?

So baar baar minority ka sawal kahan se aata hai?

Moreover, I as a Citizen am glad that India is a secular country. I have loads of friends belonging to various minorities. Heck, I myself belong to a minority in the Hindu Religion !

Yeh toh aisa hua jaise Obama telling people that be good to me, vote for me because I am a Black and you have been unjust to us for decades ! I don't think that he ever ever brought this up in his campaign. So why do our So called

Secular parties bring it up and force the issue on people? Why can't they make Development a plank rather than religion?

Also, if anyone truly believes that the Congress is a Secular party - I think he was just born yesterday ! Kashmiri Pandits? Sikh Riots? Counting the army personnel and trying to find out how many belonged to a particular religion.... these

and a LOT more !

BSP ki Mayawti ko le lijiye... Kal tak sabhi Musalman uske apne the...But aaj she plainly blames all Muslims to be the cause of her defeat. You think such leaders are Pro Muslims? Or for that Matter Pro Humanity?

Atleast the BJP has never said they are Pro Anybody...Their simple Mantra is Good for all and appeasement for none. This is what I too believe in. I don't need any extra credits because I might be belonging to a minority.

One last question, ideally, if the Congress and SP & BSP are truly as secular as they are made out to be - I would like to ask all possible "thinking" men and women belonging to OBCs/Dalits/Christianity/Islam, etc... Do they think there has

been any notable difference in their socio-economic status in the past decades? Has their education level gone up? Have they secured better jobs? Don't they realise that they are being used as pawns? Aren't these what a party is suppossed to provide? Had these so called clean parties really been Secular - We wouldn't have such poverty and ignorance.

You should know Shahid Ji, you are personally involved with such projects.

I think BJP has some of the best brains and has been sincere while in Governance... They do not skirt long standing issues and are pro action..

@Deepak - Thanks for stopping by. I am sure BJP shall spring back. Leadership too shouldn't be a problem..should get resolved fairly soon...

@What's in a name - Yes you are right :) I have made the necessary changes...

@India Unbound - Thanks for sharing these facts. I did feel that maybe the age issue had proven to be a negative...As far as leadership is concerned, I guess we shall have to wait and watch...

All Talk and No Action said...

Here is a good enough analysis by Aiyar...

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Comments--Analysis/Graveyard-of-electoral-theories/articleshow/4555309.cms?curpg=1

Ye manzilen !! said...

Alltalk: "Gujrat holocaust" and other killing fields force Mulsims to look for "safety first". For them it is important ke jaane bache aur maa behno ka rape na ho and their wombs are not slit open...

Everything else is negotiable.....

This needs a post from me to explain and I will do it with some personal examples including the one from Threshold India..

Ye manzilen !! said...

@India unbound: Republican party of the US is looking backwards and its all over here. Theire new faces are Dick Cheney and MCcain and what else is happening here needs more space..

Republican Party of Afghanistan (Taliban) and Pakistan ( whoever they are) too looking a glory of 1000 years ago...this is what I mean by looking backwards....

BJP going from 2 seats to 88 has a lot to do with an old dilapidated Masjid then anything else...year was 1989 coincidently!

However, I agree with you that elections have a lot more than what meets the eye.

ps: I am assuming that I have your vote even if I go out making hate speehces against either Ram, or Muhammad or Desouza!!

hary!! said...

hellos...ya i do like your views on BJP, they do hav great leaders in them but unfortunately secularism is one topic that continuously seem to tear the BJP apart, why not concentrate on loads of development or rather strengthening the party...instead waste most of the time on religious remarks and campaigns. Glad India is not a secular country and diversified in mind and soul.
Plus i agree the absence of dynamic youth can be a vital turning point, which i think most of the IT population did not vote because they were up in some other state other than native and if they had voted would have definitely done for congress being led by Team Rahul now!

Nice write anyways!

allthecrap said...

@neha..even i feel some wat good abt NDA loosing.. :)
@ye manzil..i agree with you men...with ppl like varun gandhi u can only go in reverse direction.

@india unbound ...HI... :)

@alltalkandnoaction

Well if a doctor's son can be a doctor, if abhishek can get a break in films, why cant a politician's son can become a politician, Agreed its a public service wala thing but again if i am a politician's child and i have urge towards social work and i can go to boston for studying politican scienece and if i get a loksabha ticket wats wrong in that?...I may get select for the first time just because of my DAD but next time it will come to what work i have done and what i can do.

And as far as congress is concerened the nehru-gandhi family always took them forward...after nehru it was indira,then rajeev,sonia and now rahul...no one failed(and thats y they persue this family time and again) and they progressed so y congress shd part from them. Congress have bunch of good guys and if gandhi member can give them the right direction then its all good.And It has worked.

Coming to BJP dynastiy politics, U forgot the poster boy varun gandhi?..He is son of sitting MP; also Jaswant singh's son from rajsthan. but u can argue that congress gives tickets to son/daughters of politician and BJP doesnt have many examples of that.I agree. BUt why some one is given ticket from gurudapur or patana.... just bcoz he acts well in films. Why a cricketer gets ticket from amritsar.... just for hitting those 6's??AND that all india BAHU (I no there are more examples in congress but right now we r talking abt BJP right?) Basic points is these all ppl havent worked for ppl atleast before getting the ticket ..they all won(except bahu) and may have perform there but thats different matter...In casse of politician's children ;atleast have that enviorment at home.

And lets face it congress has better team than BJP...manmohan is better than advani....montek is better than arun shourie...chidambaram is better than yashwant singh and jaswant sigh both put togther...we all know wat lalu has done....antony is better than fernandis( tabut gotala )and many more.And today congress has more promising young leader than than BJP.

And coming to milind deora; I cant digest the fact that only because he looked fit ppl voted for him. He looked promising thats why he won. And second time win reinforce the fact.I mean u can compare govinda and milind deora.Former got selected for his payjama chap dancing and promising looks and next time he knew it was not his cup of tea and left it altoghther.


And the day jaitely becomes a party president BJP will turn into another janta dal with all so called leaders going there way. And that why they persude advani to be there as leader of BJP.Because after advani who?? is the biggest question BJP has.

About Mr.Modi he may be a good administrator but not so good human for sure. You heard is speech abt gudia and bhudiya??...he was really campaining for national election??....his statement ...india me aise jail nahi bani jo modi ko unnder kar sake...y u need to give such speeches??...talk abt development...wat went wrong for UPA...but no u will play with emotions.CRAP!!!!!!!!

And wat u said abt minority saying hamera saath bura hua n all so varun's speech is not that wrong. U have listened to wat he said??..me unke haath kat dunga....unke nam sune hai aapne..fakkruddin,mirza..agar raat ko aaaap unhe dekho to darr jaoge...now wat was that..and BJP said he will be there star campainer0

allthecrap said...

the second part as it doesnt allow more than 4096 char... :)

And in one of ur post's comment u said majority of ppl want to have ram mandir at ayodha.Just want to say if thats the case then i am in minority. Because it will never end if they get ayodha they will demolish taj mahal because of alleged shiv mandir .Majority of ppl dont want ram mandir they want peace and harmony.And thats why BJP shoud stop harping abt it. And common civil code as ridiculous idea as going on war with pakistan(as said by our beloved rajnath sigh). Its impossible to have common civil for such a diverse country.

And look at our leader who promised "decisive governance" cant take up a failure in sporting way. He want to quit just because he lost and other wise he was ON for PM post. He is not even in position of giving an interview and tell ppl what went wrong for BJP.Atleast Prakash karat and laloo has that guts. And Advani said Manmohan was WEAK.


Thats y i said this post will be long one in my last comment but u kept it short so my comment are longer than ur post.. :)

hey no offence to anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!

keep posting!!!!!!!!!


PS : Ignore the typos

india unbound said...

@ Ye Manzilein

Muslims of Bhagalpur (Muslim dominated constituency) voted Shahnawaz Hussein (BJP Candidate)and he won despite Varun's hate speeches. Varun's speeches were undoubtedly wrong but it is wrong to say that it was a dominant issue in the elections.

Those who vote Congress, do they all support pogrom of 3000 Sikhs in Delhi? I have written extensively on this here http://indiaunbound.wordpress.com/2009/02/16/narendra-modi-and-rajiv-gandhi/ so wont harp on it more.

@ All The Crap

Congress won 5 out of 6 seats in Mumbai (including Milind's) due to MNS. So first thing that Milind would have done is thank Raj Thackeray :)

Goa has a common civil code and it has about 50% Christians, a religious minority. So I dont think CSC is as bad as it is made out to be.

Yes even BJP has its share of actors, cricketers but the situation is much better than Congress. Shatrughan Sinha has been member of the party since it had 2 seats in Lok Sabha. It would be unfair to compare him with Dharmendra or Govinda. Likewise I feel Sunil Dutt was also in a different league and so is Raj Babbar, though I disagree with their ideologies.

Regarding Coffin Scam, Congress could not even prove that there was a scam in the last five years. At least now that George has almost retired after his loss in the recent LS elections, we should stop maligning one of the honest person in Indian Politics. I am not saying this because he was with NDA. I know that even BJP has many corrupt leaders though far less than other parties.

Ye manzilen !! said...

Indiaubound: There is a difference dear: Congress apologize for Sikh Progrom again and again. The others flaunt it as a badge of honor!

The bottom line is, we as young Indians should not allow these old timers to leave a messed up India. Because they will be gone and we will spend rest of our lives fighting the demon they created, fires they started...

allthecrap said...

@indiaunbound

Please reply to all the point I raise else dont read them.

when u say sunil dutt, raj babbar and sinha are in diffrent league it simply means that they have worked well after they got elected. But here we are talking abt giving the first chance(ticket). They all got there first ticket because of there fame and stardom and not because of there social work. And did good work after getting elected and became good leaders. Now it so happend with gandhi family that whenever they were given a chance they proved there worth. Now wats wrong in that?..from nehru to rahul all did wonders for congress so they just tried them once and never got chance to part away because it all worked. So you stop harping abt that now.


Coming to mumbai and milind deora it always happen that ur oppositions weakness is ur strength.wats new in that?? And even after winning by more 1 lakh votes u think all MNS vote would have gone to shiv sena??...i dont think so.

Its nice to know you think not-guilty-till-proven then why u harp abt boforce, sikh rights. Nobody proved guilty.Verdict is not out yet.

"we should stop maligning one of the honest person in Indian Politics"

I mean you no him personally? m sure you must be having some data to justify this(you always have)..the same guy who kicked coke and IBM out of this country?

"I know that even BJP has many corrupt leaders though far less than other parties."

Please provide some data because thats expected from you. And just FYI BJP have 43(19 for serious offence) MP's with criminal background whereas congress 41(12 for serious offence). Considering the difference(arnd 90 MPs) between both parties its huge for BJP. And this doesnt include "frivolous charges" like flouting prohibitory orders, breaking the curfew and similar offence.


My points wer dircted to alltalk but u took the pain to respond so just reposting the things u must have missed."

"And the day jaitely becomes a party president BJP will turn into another janta dal with all so called leaders going there way. And that why they persude advani to be there as leader of BJP.Because after advani who?? is the biggest question BJP has."


"And look at our leader who promised "decisive governance" cant take up a failure in sporting way. He want to quit just because he lost and other wise he was ON for PM post. He is not even in position of giving an interview so that he can tell ppl what went wrong for BJP.Atleast Prakash karat and laloo has that guts. And Advani said Manmohan was WEAK."

In Mr advani's words when declared ibn politician of the year "i humbly decalare that I can lead india". Now the guy is not even in position to lead his own party. WOW!!!!

No offence..i sound bit agressive but m not!!!!!!

keep posting!!!

india unbound said...

@ All The Crap

Shatrughan Sinha & Raj Babbar did not get party tickets just after joining politics. That’s why their case is different. Both joined opposition parties and even faced ire of the Govt of the day and toiled hard for their respective parties. Sunil Dutt was a Sheriff (apolitical post) before getting ticket and he was into social service before entering politics. He even made movies to spread social awareness.

What was Govinda's record in public life (apart from his acting and dancing) that he got a Congress ticket?

As far as wonders about Nehru family is concerned, I really don’t know what you are talking about but as far as no. of seats or voting percentage is concerned, I think Congress of today is far cry from the time after independence. In 1989 Congress got 197 seats in LS, was the single largest party and still sat in opposition as they were reduced to that figure from 404 (courtesy anti Sikh campaign of 1984 and not because of Rajiv). Today they get 206 seats and they are happy as if they have reached 404. Congress used to get 40-50% of votes and in this election they got less than 30%. This is indeed the wonder of the family :D

You are free to think that MNS votes would have gone to Congress or for that matter are even free to think that MNS votebank comprises North Indians and Muslims voted in large nos to BJP.

Regarding George Fernandes, Yes, I know him personally but that does not prove that he is honest or does it? The reason I say he is an honest politician because his life style is very simple unlike other politicians and there has been no serious believable allegation against him. Shouting "Coffin Chor Coffin Chor" is not a serious allegation if the party (Cong) which shouts such slogans while in opposition does not even care about ordering an inquiry against him when it comes to power. There is no inquiry pending against George Fernandes, forget about proving anything and so he could not be called corrupt.

As far as Sikh riots are concerned numerous inquiry commissions have acknowledged role of Jagdish Tytler, etc. No Commission has even acknowledged complicity of Narendra Modi in Gujarat Riots. It was only recently during the elections that SC ordered inquiry of role played by Modi during riots. I am sure this would come up again during next elections.

Congress is in power since last 5 years and would be in power for nexty five years. They can simply create a commission to inquire Modi's role during riots but they wont do that as that may bring out the truth.

india unbound said...

Yes this time there are more MPs with criminal charges in BJP and is definitely not good for the party or the country. But Congress gave more tickets to criminals (114 compared to BJP's 113) and even more henious criminals (43 compared to BJP's 41)

http://groups.google.co.in/group/national-ew-news/browse_thread/thread/0de743b90e9f9a98?hl=en#

It is another matter that people loved BJP's criminals more than Congress' and we have more BJP MPs with criminal record :D

And as far as corruption is concerned, JMM Bribery case, Sugar Scam, St Keets Friogery, Harshad Mehta, Spectrum Scam and the list is endless. How many scams happened in BJP regime?

You are again entitled to believe that Congress is less corrupt despite the fact that an MP (Shailendra Mahto) openly admitted that he was bribed by Govt to vote in favour during no confidence (1993). And try to find why Manmohan was not willing to include Raja in cabinet this time. And yes Amar Singh supported Congress because he was in favor of Nuke Deal :D

Advani did not say he was strong because he could give more interviews. Initially Manmohan mistook "strong" for physical fuitness and now people think that one becomes strong by giving interviews to media. The reason Manmohan was called weak because he was not elected by people but selected by Rajmata and Yuvraj and owed his position to them and not the people. Victory of Congress does not change the fact that he is still a night watchman till Rahul baba decides to take over. Advani is doing the right thing by resigning after taking the moral responsibility of the defeat. I really don’t understand what is wrong in this. The party cannot obiviously fight 2014 in his leadership so he his paving way for younger generation.

You are again free to fantasise that BJP would go Janata Dal way if Jaitley is made President.

There is nothing wrong in being aggressive however it would be better if you check facts before posting so that I don’t have to type such long replies.

allthecrap said...

hhahaha...only single link provided....and as u said u know fernandis personally..again the eternal question comes up...r u lk advani??

again u talked abt sinha and raj babbr..give some idea abt social work done by smiti irani and dharmendra(iske bare me to post election bhi khuch bata de)....

coming to geaorge as u said he lives simple life ...wow..just because he wears those khadi kurtas???...and u talk abt setting up a commision n all...tell me how many leaders have been convicted in india???...when I say y u harp about boforce and other cases when nobody is convicted..its because if u make so much noice abt italian guy. Why NDA didnt do a single thing abt it? NDA was there for 6 long years wat they did for boforce case??..abt sikh riots??...tell me!!!!!!

coming to second point....
hahahahaha....i thght ur a smart ass but now it doesnt seem like...ur comparing congress's vote share from 80's. Are last election(2004) se hi compare hoga na??..n rahul doesnt have magic stick ki sab ek jhatke me ho jayega??...let me tell u after nehru its the first time PM got re-elected after completing a 5 year term. Now for you even that not worth noticing. Atlest BJP ke tarah kam to nahi hua. And if you read vir sanghvis article in todays HT. He clearly states that the places where modi campaiged BJP lost and vice versa for rahul and congress. AAkhe bad karne se andhera nahi hota din me.


"It was only recently during the elections that SC ordered inquiry of role played by Modi during riots. I am sure this would come up again during next elections."

U talk abt commissions n all ...and u dont want to beleieve wat SC has to say...double std??..huh?? And when you say rajeev gandhi ne paisa khaya but have u got any proof???..waise gujrat ki ek minister ko pakda hai ...i hope u know.

Wat i said about milind is ki..even if you combined MNS and SS votes he will be just marginally behind so thats y i think even there was no MNS he would have won.


Now i agree on this point that taking SP support was not good. But u didnt tell me abt bjp's love affair with sukhram in himachal. there are some political situations where you have to give in.

Coming to manmohan; even arun jaitley is not elected doest it make him weak??...weaping in front of camera and walking out of interview mid way makes advani weak.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/fronting-for-a-cause/446026/0

And BJP lost election when LK was leaderin 2004; But that time he didnt resign. Now he waana quit bcoz no future. I didnt say giving interview makes someone weak or strong. But atleast he can come out and accept the defeat.


I am not fantasicing abt Arun jaitley boss..its BJP who has this fear. U said party cant go ahead with advani for next election then they shd have choosen next candidate na usko kyu waps laye??


and do reply to ye manzile's observation abt sikh riot and babri majid....

india unbound said...

hhahaha...only single link provided....Link would be provided if necessary. Which part you suspect to be untrue?

again u talked abt sinha and raj babbr..give some idea abt social work done by smiti irani and dharmendra(iske bare me to post election bhi khuch bata de).... Looks like you don’t remember what you aksed. Just scroll up and you would find that I actually said that Shatrughan is different from Dharmendra & Govinda and I even said that BJP has its share of actors, cricketers etc. I even said that Sinha, Dutt & Babbar are different from others. Dutt is from Congress. Babbar is in Congress and was in SP. You are talking as if I said that all BJP actor politicians perform. Infact I put Dharmendra in the same league as Govinda. But one cant do much about people whose line of reasoning goes by "aisa hu hoga, waisa hua hoga" FYI, Smriti Irani runs an NGO which works in rural areas and she is not an MP or MLA.

coming to geaorge as u said he lives simple life ...wow..just because he wears those khadi kurtas???...and u talk abt setting up a commision n all...tell me how many leaders have been convicted in india???...when I say y u harp about boforce and other cases when nobody is convicted..its because if u make so much noice abt italian guy. Why NDA didnt do a single thing abt it? NDA was there for 6 long years wat they did for boforce case??..abt sikh riots??...tell me!!!!!! Are you really so ignorant about Bofors? Well, Swedisn national radio (equivalent of Akashwani) declared in 1987 that kickbacks were paid to top Indian Politicians and defence officials. However within one month of Swedish radio's announcement, Rajiv declared in the Parliament that no kickbacks were paid without conducting any inquiry !!! Obiviously not all Indians are enamoured by wonder of Gandhi family to blindly believe him.

Even Rajiv's kin Arun Nehru left him because of Bofors and so did VP Singh, Arun Singh etc. Ottavio Quatrochi was the main suspect since 1987 and CBI was seeking arrest warrant but since he was a family friend of Gandhis, CBI was unsusccessful in even getting an arrest warrant. They finally got that in 2000 when NDA came to power. It was during NDA regime that case was contested in different countries and it was only during non Congress Govts that relevant progress was made.

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1082262

india unbound said...

coming to second point....
hahahahaha....i thght ur a smart ass but now it doesnt seem like...ur comparing congress's vote share from 80's. Are last election(2004) se hi compare hoga na??..n rahul doesnt have magic stick ki sab ek jhatke me ho jayega??...let me tell u after nehru its the first time PM got re-elected after completing a 5 year term. Now for you even that not worth noticing. Atlest BJP ke tarah kam to nahi hua. And if you read vir sanghvis article in todays HT. He clearly states that the places where modi campaiged BJP lost and vice versa for rahul and congress. AAkhe bad karne se andhera nahi hota din me.
I may not be as smart as you thought but I know what I am talking about..

You talked about Gandhis in general. It is but natural that past performances would be cited. BTW, do you know what was the worst performance of Congress since independence seat wise? And under whose leadership? They got 114 seats in 1999 under the leadership of Sonia & that was their worst performance.

U talk abt commissions n all ...and u dont want to beleieve wat SC has to say...double std??..huh?? And when you say rajeev gandhi ne paisa khaya but have u got any proof???..waise gujrat ki ek minister ko pakda hai ...i hope u know. What did SC say? They have just ordered inquiry and not judged Modi as guilty. By your logic, there is no need to wait for judgements.

Coming to manmohan; even arun jaitley is not elected doest it make him weak??...weaping in front of camera and walking out of interview mid way makes advani weak. Arun Jaitley would be weak PM if he is not elected by people but if selected by someone. For example leaders like Vajpayee, Rajiv, Indira were not weak as they were strongest leaders of their party when they were PMs and the buck stopped with them. This is not the case with Manmohan.

india unbound said...

And BJP lost election when LK was leaderin 2004; But that time he didnt resign. Now he waana quit bcoz no future. Weird logic. LKA was not prime minesterial candidate. Vajpayee was. He quit politics. LKA was a senior leader in 2004. By your logic, this time entire top leadership including Sushma, Arun, etc should resign.

I didnt say giving interview makes someone weak or strong. But atleast he can come out and accept the defeat. It has not been even 10 days that results were declared. Just because no interview has been given doesn't mean he is weak. BTW, how long did Sonia took to give her first interview when she entered politics? I am not even asking how long she took to give her interview after she got the lowest ever seats for Congress in 1999.

I am not fantasicing abt Arun jaitley boss..its BJP who has this fear. U said party cant go ahead with advani for next election then they shd have choosen next candidate na usko kyu waps laye?? Well because the next leader has not been elected yet. You see things are different in BJP from Congress where madam decided that Manmohan would be PM and everyone followed. Here LKA alone cannot decide who would be next set of leaders or for that matter no single person would decide. It will take time and hence till then LKA would be leader.

and do reply to ye manzile's observation abt sikh riot and babri majid....LKA , Vajpayee and many senior leaders have said umpteen number of times that Gujarat riot is a blot on BJP and country. Recently Manmohan said that Sikhs should forget 84 riots but he wants people to remember Gujarat riots. This despite the fact that tens of people have been convicted for Gujarat riots but not many for Sikh riots.

Ye manzilen !! said...

Brothers,
Let us agree to disagree, so that all talk can write another blog. I think she is waiting for this duel to get over..LOL

Personally, I don't care if you have article 356 abolished, Uniform or no-Uniform Civil code brought in, all I care is " Life, Liberty and Pursuit of happiness" should be protected / guaranteed for all 1.2 billion Indians....

I even would not mind if India is named Hindu Rashtra, Muslim Republic or Christian Nation. Those are just semantics to me. A man - a human is more important than all of these IDs combined. ( I think Hindu scriptures will back me up on this)

Thats all...I hope we all can agree on this.

All Talk and No Action said...

@Ye Manzilen - I truly laughed out Loud after reading your comment :)

It has been rightly said that discussions on Politics & Religion can turn best friends into Foes... and vice versa...

Yes, Hindu scriptures do say that a Human life is more imp. than any religious identity...

You are right about Muslims being more concerned about Life than any other aspect of governance. But I would say that is the case with every religion. Also, the Riot cases that you have cited have now been negated by the Supreme Court Too. Teesta and her NGO had their own vested interests in concocting those stories.

All said, no one here supports riots/loss of innocent lives.
However, one shouldn't be blamed as being "Communal" in nature just because one supports a particular Party - In this case, the BJP.

I have a problem with a party who in all it's campaigns just says - I am secular, hum aapke saath hain. If all is well at the ground level, toh be wajah logon mai tensions kyun create karne?

I would rather want talks on development and what the party can offer than how secular/pseudo secular it is.

I still stand by most of BJP's ideologies - be it their stand on Article 370, their stand on internal Security, policies in favour of Defense Forces, non appeasement of any community/caste and stand on relations with China/Pak...and many more.

@India Unbound & Allthecrap - It is certainly interesting to see the enthusiastic comments. Yet, I would prefer if we used "better" language while debating.

As said earlier, no party is doodh se dhuli. All we can do is get our ideas clear about why we go for/against an ideology/party.

Personally, I think BJP lost because of various reasons and I don't think Ideology was the main reason.

To be a player at the National Level, I think they would have to work harder at grass-roots and go all out on their own rather than take support from various allies.

All Talk and No Action said...

@Hary - Thanks for stopping by.

The notion that BJP is w/o it's share of young Politicians is a media created misconception.

In a party like the Congress, we know all young leaders since they belong to politician families and readily get tickets.

In BJP on the other hand, one has to toil for years before one can be deemed fit to ask for a ticket. The party is democratic in nature.

If only the media highlighted cases like these, would we have our misconceptions cleared.

http://www.jokatimes.com/2009/04/3-iim-c-grads-manage-bjp%E2%80%99s-poll-strategies/

Apart from these, there are various others who might not be very well known in the media but have been working as Mumbai BJP Gen. Secretaries and holding other equally positions. Some are US returned Engineers while others work with MNCs.

I think BJP shall have to work very hard on it's PR too :)

Anonymous said...

Hey...I think I got bit personal with india unbound so I would say "sorry men"... :)

Will be careful next time....opinions differ... :)

regards
allthecrap

india unbound said...

@ All the Crap

Its ok :)

Sometimes we get personal and emotional in the heat of debate which should be avoided.

I hope ATANA does not stop posting on political issues :P